Friday Conversation: John Carpenter’s Friday the 13th?
A visitor to our website, TheRustyMachete, wrote in this past week and asked the question, what if the roles were reversed and John Carpenter directed Friday the 13th and Sean Cunningham directed Halloween? I pondered the question and what the ramifications would be on each franchise. I think we should soley focus on a Carpenter version of Friday the 13th. So, what do you think a John Carpenter Friday the 13th film would look and feel like?
Lets start with the fact that Friday the 13th, in essence, is a clone of Halloween. Freely and openly admitted to by Cunningham and associates, their Friday the 13th mimiced many aspects of the Halloween movie. So, with the originator of Halloween on board with Friday the 13th, there would be no clone in the works and it would be an original concept film. Knowing that, would Carpenter hold back the gore in his Friday the 13th movie in exchange for tension? I could imagine Friday the 13th having a lot of the same angles and shots that the Sean Cunningham directed version has now, except I wonder if Carpenter would hold back the gore, knowing the type of movie he was about to shoot. He had a no holds barred mentalilty when it came to his remake of The Thing, so the possibility of a high gore quotient is available.
In terms of the long term franchise implications, would Friday the 13th the series exist today as we know it? Would as many sequels have been made with a Carpenter led jumping off point in the franchise?
Hey thanks for using the idea! I wonder if Carpenter’s version would have had less gore and more build up? One of the things that make Halloween great was the use of The Shape in the background of scenes where you could plainly see him but the characters couldn’t. He stalked individuals in plain sight where Cunningham’s Voorheeses were quick, silent predators. Though Friday the 13th was a knockoff of Haloween I feel Carpenter’s vision of the stalker was more subtle than Cunningham’s was visceral.
I wonder if either franchise would have had the longevity that they enjoy today if the creators were reversed? Cunningham’s vision of The Shape would probably have made Myers the poor-man’s version of Jason Voorhees that has been seen in about a dozen 80s horror movies. Carpenter’s Jason Voorhees may have ended up bland even by the standards of the time, resulting in Friday the 13th being relegated to the ranks of Boogeyman or Don’t Answer The Phone.
As long as I don’t have to see Busta Rhymes in any of the sequels! LOL
I think a Carpenter version of Friday would have became a franchise. I also thought about this…..
One thing that was so scary for me was that Halloween was set in town. Right in the middle of Anywhere, USA. Normality.
The camp scenario works ( and I LOVE the F13 movies, so don’t ream me), but it is isolated, away from everyone and a killer is less likely to be seen(which some may argue would be scarier),but anything that is “out in the open”……broad daylight, everybody is outside, but nobody is “really” looking. That is much scarier to me.
Carpenter’s version may have had Jason being the adopted child of some crazy woman who lived in Anytown,USA. Her son drowned in the towns Rec Center because the teenage lifeguards were smoking weed and making out instead of watching the children.
I brought this up sometime back… when we were discussing who, besides Harry M, should score the Friday the 13th series. I brought up Carpenter.
I would love to see a Carpenter version of Friday the 13th. If anyone wants the series to make money again, why don’t they go to someone who is proven, instead of giving it to all of these wanna be’s….
First time posting on here, been to the site a lot just never got to posting anything so I apologize for any lack of “house rules” knowlege.
Definately the movie would have spawned a franchise if Carpenter directed it. I do have to agree that the gore would be downplayed a great deal in his version. Kevin Bacon might have died a different way haha.
Now, would Pamela still be alive is the real question. We all know Pamela (sorry if I’m screwing up the spelling) could very well have lived in a somewhat “Sleepaway Camp” – esque manner. Granted that movie was a rip of F13 I think you know what I’m getting at. Would I like to see a Carpenter F13?, no, because Cunningham’s version is what this site is all about. That launched the series we all love and enjoy, hate,ignore,obsess.
If Cunningham was to direct Halloween, you would honestly be put into a very weird space. Someone dies,fade to white haha. I think Sean would have put more of a person behind the killer as apposed to just a ruthless machine. I see more of a mistery to it and less of a “in your face” kind of film.
Busta Rhymes!!!
Carpenter’s version may have indeed been set in a small town. I can see the “real” creep factor of that, especially if it still started out as Pamela V. as the killer and then Jason inheriting her work.
Also, I wonder if the kills would also have been less inventive, keeping the killer using one weapon throughout as Myers used a butcher knife mostly.
Thanks for posting, TheWafflenator.
I wonder too if Mrs. Voorhees would have been left to live. Carpenter left the end of Halloween wide open with The Shape escaping and still out there lurking. Could the Mrs. Voorhees character have followed the same path and disappeared at the end of Friday the 13th? Withouth the beheading of course.
If Mrs. Voorhees had survived ala The Shape I wonder if he would have introduced Jason in the sequel? Could Pamela V. have been the series’ celebrity killer throughout? She could survive and disappear, only to resurface later in the sequels as Jason picks up the mantle and starts his work starting in part 2.
Who would Carpenter have chosen to play Mrs. Voorhees instead of Betsy Palmer?
Who would Carpenter have chosen to play Mrs. Voorhees instead of Betsy Palmer?
Answer- Betty White. She was very popular in those days. Very sweet, wholesome old lady who can play off of others and still show a demented side of herself.
I know people think of her as a “comedy” actress, but she has also done very good work in more serious roles.
I can see Betty White as the character is she can also be the woman in Bringing Down The House.
I think Carpenter would have madethe film worse and the franchise would not have been what it became. I mean, nudity and gore was synonymous with the Friday the 13th franchise. Carpneter’s Halloween had one brief scene of nudity and zero gore. A John Carpenter Friday the 13th would have just been written off as another slasher movie.
Jasonsfury,
There is no way that Carpenter would have gone with the same style of ending with Friday as he did with Halloween. if you remember in Halloween, Donald Pleasence’s character keeps refering to Myers as “evil” and “the devil”, and is always mentioning that he is different somehow, and that he is not human, as say a human would be. Pamela was a normal, distraught mother, who was only out for revenge. sure she was a murderer, but she was normal.
i think that Carpenter, if he directed Friday, would have brought more atmoshpere and tension, and more use of the shadows. plus, his musical scores can’t be beat!
Where Carpenter made a thriller/suspense/horror in Halloween, i find that Cunningham’s is a little hokey. its got your typical redneck townfolk that give all the warnings, and a dumb as a stump police deputy, and characters, outside of Alice, that i didn’t care about.
for sure you have probably seen Craven’s Last House On The Left, and Cunningham, played a key role in that film being made, and you have silly characters and what-not throughout the movie that takes it away from being a true horror movie. I find that Cunningham sorta carried this over into Friday.
Outside of Savini’s effects, Friday is not really that good of a movie, one of my least fav’s, just ahead of JGTH. I think the real reason it was a hit is because of people knowing who Savini was, and knowing that they would be in for a wild ride.
But, now i am rambling, but to sum up, i think Carpenter would have made a far superior Friday, then what was made. He has a creepy style that digs its claws in under your skin and doesn’t let go.
And BTW, Betty White would be an awesome Pamela Voorhees
I don’t think Savini’s name alone was responsible for the first Friday’s success. Up to that point there weren’t really that many “scary” horror films out there, and people flocked to the cinemas to see what the shock factor was with the film. I do agree that Carpenter would have added alot of atmosphere and an incredible score though. As much as I love Manfredini’s I think Carpenter may have done better.
I understand what you are saying in regards to Mrs. Voorhees not being super human. But there could be a scenario at the end where Alice hit Mrs. V with perhaps that frying pan and a good amount of blood was pooring out her head. The cops show up and then she is gone. Something like that could happen. Perhaps the effect would not be the same. You know where I am going with that.
There are lots of ways she could be badly injured and still get up and walk away.
Here’s another question: Would there be a Loomis type of recurring character in the Fridays who knows of Pamela’s and Jason’s existence who would be constantly trying to destroy them, and if so, what would be the connection between this character and Pamela/Jason?
The closest thing to a Loomis typed character in F13 is Tommy. Only because, I feel like at the end of F13-4 he shows a little spark of insanity. Not “Crazy” insane……..just an obsessive compulsion to make sure the “villian” is dead. It haunts him all thru F13-5, and he is SILL compelled to make sure Jason is dead when F13-6 comes out.
Basically……It’s the same as Loomis’ obsession with Myers. Loomis knows of Michael from the start, but that really makes no difference. Just like Tommy, Loomis was obsessed with his “villian” since he first learned of him.
Tommy and Loomis are both haunted by the thought that there “villians” may still be out there alive and killing. It becomes their missions to make sure the “villian” is dead. Only difference is Donald Pleasance made Dr. Loomis. Nobody else would do in that role in the series(I’m excluding RZ’s remake and H2), and when he died so did Dr. Loomis…………Tommy gets to live, but he also was portraied by 3 different actors.
A Carpenter F13 would have had a “Tommy”. Pobably in a sequal….maybe a survivor of Pam’s killing spree who moves 2 or 3 Counties away, only to hear of another massacre( with the same M.O.) 15 years later?
She (it’s always a she, no matter who makes the horror movie) comes back to make sure Mrs. Voorhees(Betty White, of course……LOL) is dead and discovers the new “villian” and gets killed but not before confirming the legend of the Voorhees Slayings to the current victims.
This is an odd Friday conversation, but an interesting thought. If John Carpenter wouldve directed FT13th there would have been no blood or gore. Which means no Tom Savini. The original Halloween was more of a pscychological thriller than a slasher flick. Why I dont understand when Victor Miller said they wanted to ripoff Halloween. FT13th was both a mystery movie and a slasher flick in one. Halloween had no blood at all. If Carpenter wouldve directed FT13th, I feel it wouldnt have been a sucess. And that wouldve been the end of the series. If Sean Cunnigham wouldve directed Halloween, it may have been more kickass then it already is. Dont get Me wrong, Im a huge Carpenter fan. But his intentions with Halloween were to be a thriller and not a slasher. And according to Carpenter and Debra Hill, the ending was not meant to spawn a sequal. 1981 was the year when sequals became the big thing. And thats thanks to FT13th part 2 and Halloween 2. And by the way, FT13th part 2 was released first. And I believe in a way Halloween 2 ripped Jason off. Halloween 2 was when the blood and gore came in to play. Heres an example of how they are similar. In FT13th part 2 Jason kills a cop with a hammerclaw. And in Halloween 2 Michael kills a security guard (Mr. Garret) with a hammerclaw. So whos really to say who ripped off who. And if Carpenter wouldve done the score for FT13th, as much as I love his music for Halloween and all his other films. It just doesnt beat Manfredinis score. When I was a kid, FT13th’s music scared the crap out of me more than carpenters. And finally my final thought, the difference between Sean Cunningham and John Carpenter is Sean did part ways with the series for many years but came back once New Line bought the franchise. Carpenter parted ways with Halloween after part 3 and had no desire to do another. He even turned down the Michael Myers VS Pinhead movie. Clive Barker was willing to write the script if John Carpenter directed, but didnt happen obviously. Im just glad the franchises turned out the way they did.
I think if John Carpenter had directed F13 it would have been more concentrated on the suspense instead of the gore and if Sean S. Cunnigham had directed Halloween it probably would have had more gore in it and not rely so much on the suspense.
Some of you are probably gonna hate me for saying this, as much as I love love love Friday the 13th I think John Carpenter’s Halloween is so much scarier than F13th. I mean I have seen it over a 100 times but it just creeps me out. I guess it scares me even more because Jason and his mother had a reason for killing, while little michael myers came from a good home and did’t. I know that isn’t what the discussion is about and I tend to always stray away from some of the subjects because I think there could be alot of better things to talk about. I am very thankful that Sean Cunnigham brought us F13, part 2-4 are def my favorites and I watch them all the time. I grew up in the 80’s and went to alot of summer camps so I can relate to the stories and I guess these films are my guilty pleasures, I feel at peace when I watch them and def if I have a bad day I come home and watch them and it makes everything ok. There has been occassions I watched them a few times a day. I just am kinda mad at Sean C. because I feel like it is no longer about a good film, he is making his money no matter what when new installments come out, merchandise, etc. He kinda made that clear if you read between the lines, in the documentary His name was Jason. I mean he was showing his home and what Jason had done for him. I just wish he would stop letting new directors and writers drag the F13th through the mud and just make garbage. I mean hell the reboot, the kids were so superficial, I did’t give a damn if they died or not. I really relate to the old ones because they remind me of my friends. I would def hang out with Chris, Rick and Shelly way before I would the reboot crowd. But, I do think that John Carpenter is a brilliant man and I for one would like to have saw how he would have went about doing the series, I dont think Jason would have ever ended up in space!!!! I just think Sean Cunnigham should step up to the plate and take back the franchise. Honestly, he should have rewrote the script for the reboot. If Wes Craven can take the movie Last House and the Left, remake it, reimagine it and it turn out way better than the orginal than Sean can do it.
And thank you TheRustyMachete for idea!
And you know just a thought, there is no reason now John Carpenter couldn’t do a f13th movie, they have let every other dumbass try! I for one would pay money to see it. We might need to petition for that being Sean isnt going to step up to the plate.
I think if John Carpenter made F13 he would have, first, come up with a more engaging story and stronger characters. That is a point for Carpenter. And as we all know Cunningham was going for a get-rich-quick rip-off (and I thank you Sean) with no plans for a sequel. I am aware that Cunningham did not write F13-1 but from what info we have been privy to he didn’t do much to give us anything but bodies to maim.
What everyone is forgetting, though (or maybe wasn’t aware of) about Halloween is that after Rick Rosenthal finished his cut (of Halloween II)- which he has stated many many times as going for the Suspense not the gore- Carpenter came in and reshot all the murders with the gore that we get in there. It wasn’t there originally. So to think Carpenter would have went with suspense might be a long shot. And seriously, no money helps change a gore movie to a suspense movie, right?
God love Sean but let’s face it, he’s not the best director out there. He’s not even at the top of the horror genre (no offence Sean). Coming from Documentaries (I speculate here) he loves his wide angles- even Last house on the Left was all Wide shots. He certainly is a better Producer, I’ll give him that. And F13-2 & 3 were Produced by Carpenter and directed by our good friend Stevey Miner, who has turned out to be a more capable director than Cunningham.
Now where was I going- oh yeah, so I think that if Carpenter directed F13-1, we would get more of the same but perhaps a smarter plot and just as much gore. I think the nudity count would be the same, too.
Who knows what he would have done in F13. He refers to Halloween as his “Argento Picture” and I doubt he would have done something like that for Friday the 13th. I think we would have gotten a similar outcome from Carpenter. This is all assuming he’s working off the Victor Miller script.
Had Carpenter written and directed then who knows how he would have approached it. I don’t think he would have veered too far off what he got. It would have looked better technically and with Dean Cundy doing cinemtography it would have looked great.
Hey Kiah thanks for the kudos! I honestly think about things like this alot especially when at work.
would janet leigh have beencovincing as pamela voorhees?
RM, your welcome. I don’t think Janet could have pulled it off. I tell you what would have been scary if Judy Garland tried to pull it off. Now that would be creepy and you would never expect something like that from her. It would have def been towards the end of her career when she was a bad alcoholic and older, not the young dorthy gale from kansas. Hell her stage performes before she died was creepy!
Judy Garland would have been creepier if she attempted to go into “Over The Rainbow” during her rant toward the end of the movie, before she started screaming “look at what you did to him!”
haha I would fall out of my seat! She would take a sip of whateva she had her cup, “while screaming look what you did to him” slapping Alice and saying “you whore”! That would have been something